Challenge fix

[itsme]

@Crimsonking

I was being so polite near the end because no matter how I read it it sounds like either I'm coming off as an ass, whiny, or I AM being disrespectful. If I read it like that (I couldn't fix it, I tried) I'm sure at least one other person will, so I tried to be extra polite to hopefully offset the tone I was giving before.

[Ray]

Quote:but did they actually want YOU to do something about it?

haha, yes they did, otherwise I would have dodged that bullet. Generally as I gather feedback, it's not people just complaining in the wind so they can hear their complaint run a full circle until they hear their own complaints from the other side; they hope something will be done about it before then, and I attempt to provide support that most games/companies fail with. 

This was definitely not a couple people complaining about it either....I was getting many PM's through chatzy, iou forum, and a lot of players on kong chat channels (when I ran through each channel asking for concerns/complaints) asking for something to be done about it.

Anyways, keep up suggestions for the next day if anyone has them.

[Wq9ill]

It's harming every guild and organized party.
Why?
Let's run through a fictional example case:
Pre patch: I am 12 CP short of 200 and i've progressed all challenges as much as i could, except from werethings silver.
I am able to get it to 5/12 solo, then gather my mates and get 4/12 duo and 3/12 group, netting me 200 cp. *yeay*
Post petch: Same assumptions, but i can now get solo to 11/12. I am now at 199 cp, but unable to do duo and group, so i'm fucked.

So imo it really discourages team play.

Idc what you do, revert it to how it was prior to the patch, do Iodines solution, unlock it for guild-only parties like crim said, or take what itsme suggested and add level caps.

But please change it!

[Wildfire2099]

@ Crimson - It sounded like you were saying lower level people shouldn't have options... I don't think that's really what you meant, though, now that you've explained.

I was under the impression that it was changed because too many very low level people were getting carried by guildmates to finish challenges they had no business finishing... what I was saying is that's a good thing to prevent, as it makes people who happen to get into a good guild(or alts) have a big advantage over those that don't.

[Sylogis]

(07-24-2015, 04:51 AM)Wq9ill Wrote: ...
It's harming every guild and organized party.

So imo it really discourages team play.

Idc what you do, revert it to how it was prior to the patch, do Iodines solution, unlock it for guild-only parties like crim said, or take what itsme suggested and add level caps.

But please change it!

+1

After patch guilds cant work together on challenges (you need guild full of players with the same upgrade score/damage +- to progress more because new solo restrictions).

Pre patch - progress depends on best player(s)
Post patch - progress depends on worst player(s) in guild /group/

[WhiteK]

This patch is good , cause it stop the fact that low lv just keep asking for high lv to push them up * that cheating :| * , and if u said it unfair how about the peps who play this game for 6 months *like me * , the new players just get in and use a high train speed up ticket to get to lv 200 with out sweat !!!? This patch make new players to do more to receive more challenge not disadvantage them or anything but to make sure it not boring just to have a high lv friend help all the time * u have to work to eat *

[itsme]

(07-24-2015, 10:14 AM)WhiteK Wrote: This patch is good , cause it stop the fact that low lv just keep asking for high lv to push them up * that cheating :| * , and if u said it unfair how about the peps who play this game for 6 months *like me * , the new players just get in and use a high train speed up ticket to get to lv 200 with out sweat !!!? This patch make new players to do more to receive more challenge not disadvantage them or anything but to make sure it not boring just to have a high lv friend help all the time * u have to work to eat *

Did you EVER do any challenge without planning on beating them to get CP to reach the next milestone?

It works fine for the first three challenges since there's not a huge gap of power by the time the last enemy appears, but that's not the case with the larger challenges.

I'm using an old spreadsheet that shows hp of challenge enemies. Let's use Ugh a Thug silver since it relates to me better than any other one. this spreadsheet says 1,153,869 hp is how much the last enemy has. Since the reduction in difficulty results in ~50% less hp this puts his current hp at 576935. Now, even though I can do more now, let's just say the average I deal in a challenge by myself (skills and all included) is ~500k. This kind of difference is large enough that I probably wouldn't be able to get lucky and beat it within a few tries, not to mention how much of a pain in the butt it'd be to even get to him after waiting for the previous enemies to die.

In duo challenges,  that means if i teamed up with someone who did just as much as I do, I'd be able to defeat the 12th enemy since his hp is 790,289. that's an additional 12 cp right there which could very well put me over the milestone and get a 250 base damage boost.

If I was in a group and everyone just so happened to average my dps, then I could beat the 11th enemy or maybe the 12th with a little luck since they have 2,778,317 and 3,161,105 hp respectively. Let's only go with 11 so it's perfectly reasonable that I'd get that far.

That means that under my own strength, carrying a fair amount of my weight in the challenges, I would get a total of 35 cp towards my next milestone, that's more of a third of the way. When every few points may end up making the difference 33 is huge.

Now then, 33 is a lot, but how much can I get right now? I mean solo challenges are easier, so you should be able to get more of them done anyways, right? Kind of. If I can do 500k damage in a challenge, but didn't have the benefit of the reduced hp I could STILL beat the 12th fight. they only had 351,249 hp, which is well below my damage, so them having 351,249 as opposed to 175,625 doesn't matter at this point.

Since I haven't beaten the last boss, that means that I cannot do ANYTHING in duo or in group challenges, so it's cut off right there and my total is 12 cp.

So let me summarize, with a character with the exact same strength and assuming grouping with a player or players of equal strength, in the older version I would be able to get 35 cp while now I'm only able to get 12. That's a difference of 23 which is nearly 1/4th of the way to a milestone. This is only with 1 challenge, not even including silver were things which could net another doze or so at that strength.

So as it currently is, the old way helped you reach milestones faster at your own strength. You're complaining abut not having higher level players help you and you had to do it the hard way, but by the looks of it you had it easier than it's been made for lower levels now. If you still support this change 100% that means that you want to restrict the progress of lower levels just so that you can stay on top.

[WhiteK]

I never complain whenever anyone try to help me ! what i mean is Ray want to give the new player some challenge not just have a higher-hand to help them pass through things like thin air , and 1 more things u know i NOT ANYWHERE NEAR THE TOP so stop thinking like that , it really make peps like me piss off , a good daily is not a game u spend tons of money in to finish it then move to the other games , this is not Market-type MMO this is a MMO where u gain by HARD WORK NOT JUST HAVE HIGH LV OR MONEY TO HELP U , not everyone is millionaire u know :| and also what is the problem if we just slow down a bit to reach to cp milestone , it not like the world coming to an END and u want to rush thing up , if u want to rush thing like that i suggest u play other MMO and let see how it turn out

[CRIMSONKING]

(07-24-2015, 12:52 PM)WhiteK Wrote: I never complain whenever anyone try to help me ! what i mean is Ray want to give the new player some challenge not just have a higher-hand to help them pass through things like thin air , and 1 more things u know i NOT ANYWHERE NEAR THE TOP so stop thinking like that , it really make peps like me piss off , a good daily is not a game u spend tons of money in to finish it then move to the other games , this is not Market-type MMO this is a MMO where u gain by HARD WORK NOT JUST HAVE HIGH LV OR MONEY TO HELP U , not everyone is millionaire u know :| and also what is the problem if we just slow down a bit to reach to cp milestone , it not like the world coming to an END and u want to rush thing up , if u want to rush thing like that i suggest u play other MMO and let see how it turn out

I think you're mistaken. I personally spoke to Ray on chatzy after the patch regarding challenges and he told me it was to stop haggling of high players being brought down by lower players. Not once did he state, it was to stop low level players from being carried or helped.

Having your opinion is fine, but I don't think it's in the best interest of the IOU community that you tell members to go play another game when you disagree with their point of views. I understand that you may be frustrated and want to get your point across but that may not be the best way to go about it. Ofc I'm not even an authority at all, lol so you can disregard this comment;however, use your discretion when making comments.

[Analog]

(07-22-2015, 11:51 PM)Iodine Wrote: I would propose a very small change to the current system that would have pretty much the same effect. It will allow people to get those duo and group challenge points up to the last boss without having to kill the solo boss first.

Make it so once you kill the solo boss, you have the next tier unlocked, instead of the current tier.
ex: Kill solo silver werewolf boss, and you can do duo and group gold werewolf.
But also increase the hp values of solo back to what it was before, since you only need to kill the previous tier.

I haven't checked out the new vs old solo difficulty yet, but just from eyeballing the old data, this proposal sounds worse than it is now, and regresses upon the primary reason for the change.

The simplest compromise that targets the majority of concerns is to keep the current system as is, with two (maybe three*) improvements:

(1) Unlock all bronze tier at the designated min level (e.g., bronze werethings group/duo unlock when solo does. (Maybe it does this already, I'm not sure.)

(2) Change duo/groups to unlock after accessing the final solo boss (don't have to defeat it). However, you cannot receive any credit for defeating the final boss on duo/group until the solo final boss has been completed. (i.e., receive a "Successfail," to borrow a phrase, on the duo/group final boss.)

*(3) MAYBE allow some sort of intra-guild exemption... however, this would introduce brand new balance and fairness issues, and would not eliminate haggling (from public nor from within their guilds). I think this is inviting new issues unnecessarily and without solving enough current of the ones.

Instead I would suggest:

An ADDITIONAL proposal to (1) and (2) above is to run temporary "events" that remove the current requirement system (back to the original system) for a week at a time, similar to the temporary 0 AP respecs currently in effect. (Alternatively, a Damage Boost weekend, or similar, to help get players over the hump on some of the harder levels.)

In fact, I'd also suggest this additional proposal to launch as soon as feasible to let the thousands of new players have a fair shake at CP while learning how the new system will work.

That said, there are a few other issues that are impeding game play that probably ought to take priority of adjustments like these, unfortunately.