Being Evil

[CRIMSONKING]

(03-13-2015, 03:31 AM)Ray Wrote: I have already lowered levels significantly for both ascensions already, and it concerns me to do that even more. The problem is double-sided here....it appears that people find leech or group to surpass the later enemies (of MUCH higher level than the early levels after ascending), yet are unable to fight much lower creatures solo, which is fine since being able to ascend can be exciting.

Perhaps I need to increase the requirement to ascend to also require a specific minimum level on Auto Base Damage for the future.

Well, perhaps but let me give you my auto skill levels for a little insight. 

Speed lvl 12> 16%
Crit chance>lvl 25 18.75%
Crit multiplier> lvl 34 84%
Base damage> lvl 64 274 damage
Double attack> lvl 25 22.5%

With just those stats I could not solo, it was only after dumping all of my ascension skills into auto upgrades. 

Level 3 auto damage 
Level 4 auto crit
Level 1 auto speed

I also needed to put up my hunting ability hp reduction, as I found that even at a -0.10% increase on a monster of 11,000 hp was more of an increase in attack than saving up 28m gold for another 6 attack auto damage. Now at level 29 and -11.65%, I can kill the first mob in an astounding time of 17 seconds. 17 damn seconds, do you know how much that has slowed down my progress from pre ascended time. 658 damage an auto hit and I have 3-4 seconds on the timer left on the first monster. 

It's not even to say well maybe my levels are too low and I didn't level them up enough. The upgrades from this point are ridiculous. Let's save up 756m gold to get a 0.5% increase in speed. That'll definitely help. Or wait, lets throw another 2m into a 0.10% increase in a crit chance. 18.75% isn't just a random number, it's pretty damn high so lets make it a snails pace from here on out. Oh but here's the kicker, double attack. Well, since you were kind enough to let the skill get to 22.5% screw the increase of 0.10%, let's make it 0.5%...wait that's wrong, let's make it 0.05% increase. That ought to help the community out on mobs that have over 11,000 hp as the first monster.

Here's an idea, when you let people not only party to kill the last stages before an ascension but also allow them to use unlimited clicking skills what do you think is going to happen after they ascend and can only rely on auto damage. You come to some silly conclusion that the reason people can advance is because of leeching? Versus the idea that they have more than double damage with click abilities. 

I understand that you are a one man team. I don't know if you're tired or what, but your logic is failing. Your balance patches are... I don't even understand. Why did we need more time for auto bonus damage to click in, why did we need splat to cost more clix. What is the balance behind that, besides to make this game even more difficult than it already is. I know people are reading my comments and probably thinking, well if you don't like the game just quit. That's true and I'm on the verge of quitting but I'm trying to figure out your logic behind the game before I do. Or hopefully that with the end game content you have something worth sticking around for. Because as it is, with balances here and there, the game is just becoming more frustrating. I play games for fun, not to get frustrated over illogical ideas. 

I know, I'm whining about your game design but please enlighten me as to how you think a game that is so difficult and time consuming with minimal progress is suppose to be fun to players. Thanks. 

[icecab21]

maybe there could be a AI teammate that people could have or different AI teammates that are unlockable?

[Yvei]

Been playing this game for not as long as other people, maybe.. But the notes above by CRIMSONKING are good examples of issues or things i see but i still enjoy the game to play in the long run for now... And i am sure other players, not all, but some do agree with his post if they would check the forums regularly like other players who enjoy this game and wish the best for it.

But like me and a lot of other people i never join forums or post anything i just read the news and continue with my day so people who give you the time and share their view on things is amazing!

Nice post CRIMSONKING.

[zieg777]

If you want, I will take full blame for splat and clix changes on that.
Hi, I'm Zieg. I'm the type of person who analyzes everything. Clix was intended to make it so that people would not just use an auto clicker. With clix came the 10% increase in idle damage. This means that someone with an auto clicker will not be able to over the course of a day output more damage with the auto clicker vs someone who is logged in all day. What I discovered is that if someone set an auto clicker to instead of using normal clicks for each clix that they gain, they used splat, they would actually do about 10x more damage throughout the day compared to the idle bonus damage. If you want people to not gain huge advantages by simply cheating at the game, you need balances. By delaying the onset of the idle bonus (which by the way will have upgrades if you read his update "starting at 120") splat no longer gains this enormous bonus. A normal player who is logged in idling for most of the time, but still occasionally clicks (regular click or abilities) will have the advantage over someone who uses auto clickers.

Rays actual balance changes will be coming. The previous update was a stability update with a small fix to prevent people from just macroing their way through the game. For now, find a partner, party up. Put 1 or two levels into party bonus. If you do the math, that will do a LOT more for you than 4 levels of auto attack damage.

[CRIMSONKING]

(03-14-2015, 02:10 AM)zieg777 Wrote: If you want, I will take full blame for splat and clix changes on that.
Hi, I'm Zieg. I'm the type of person who analyzes everything. Clix was intended to make it so that people would not just use an auto clicker. With clix came the 10% increase in idle damage. This means that someone with an auto clicker will not be able to over the course of a day output more damage with the auto clicker vs someone who is logged in all day. What I discovered is that if someone set an auto clicker to instead of using normal clicks for each clix that they gain, they used splat, they would actually do about 10x more damage throughout the day compared to the idle bonus damage. If you want people to not gain huge advantages by simply cheating at the game, you need balances. By delaying the onset of the idle bonus (which by the way will have upgrades if you read his update "starting at 120") splat no longer gains this enormous bonus. A normal player who is logged in idling for most of the time, but still occasionally clicks (regular click or abilities) will have the advantage over someone who uses auto clickers.

Rays actual balance changes will be coming. The previous update was a stability update with a small fix to prevent people from just macroing their way through the game. For now, find a partner, party up. Put 1 or two levels into party bonus. If you do the math, that will do a LOT more for you than 4 levels of auto attack damage.

Well thanks, I guess that makes sense if you did the math behind it. 

As far as your other suggestion, I've been dc'ing randomly. Which as I've said before means that if I do dc from my buddy, trying to find a random party is hard. If I took your suggestion and put prestige points into party bonus, the times I have to play alone I'd be screwed. Which would slow me down even more so. Wish I could de-scend lol, that would solve all my problems. Anyways, thanks for clearing up the clix changes for me, appreciate that. 

lol Surprised the clix system isn't only available for challenges and new unbeaten zones as yet. It's impossible to have an advantage over an autoclicker, since autoclickers can be pre-set with different times and points on the screen. There's nothing that a playing player can do to have an advantage over an autoclicker. Good to see though, that the gap is closing. 

If further changes are made from your suggestions. You should make a thread about it and explain it to the community. It goes a long way. 

[zieg777]

To go a bit more into detail regarding splat/clix:

I've got an excel sheet of all my skills and the resulting average DPS that they contribute to. This allows me to then determine the increase in dps from any individual skill, divide it by the cost, and get a ratio of dps increase/million gold. What I've also done then is take my current dps, multiply it by 1.1 to get my idle bonus dps, and figure out the average dps increase. For me, this is currently an increase of 58 damage per second. What I found is that with splat, I could actually get higher than this if cast every 28 seconds (trophy bonus drops that from 30). Originally the thought was to just increase the clix cost, but if that happened, you ended up never getting below that 58, even if it cost 600 clix. The reason is that the more clix means that there is more idle bonus time between casts. The objective is to make it harder for an auto clicker to simply cast splat once a minute.

The way it is set now, a regular player could spend all his clix, then idle while it regens. This way he not only gets the (not quite) double DPS from clicking, but also the 10% while idling while it regens.

There will always be min/maxers like myself who will find some way to get the most out of the system. I haven't played with numbers enough to determine if there would be a way to abuse how it is currently though

[universal123]

I would say the two most broken and pointless skills at the moment are auto crit and auto double attack. The others still have enough benefit to be just about worth it (I'm level 82), but those two are pointless. Even though they cost about 1/6 of another upgrade into auto damage, they are still not worth enough compared to them. For 27 mil or so I could get an extra 5 base damage (about 2% increase) or I could get about 4 double attack upgrades (0.2% increase in double attack chance). There is literally no reason for me to ever buy double attack upgrades, or critical upgrades (could get 3 for a 0.3% increase in chance), until auto crit multi and auto damage are literally in the range of costing hundreds of millions to billions of gold. Auto attack speed is still worth it because it can be bought with AP. But definitely no point to those two upgrades as they are at the moment, so the diminishing returns need to be made a lot less harsh. Maybe 0.25% per level after level 25 or so, still not a lot, but enough to make them somewhat worth buying again. Either that or massively reduce their price, by say 80-90%.

[zieg777]

yeah.... redo your math on that one universal. You'd be surprised at what can change your Damage per second

[universal123]

(04-04-2015, 01:53 AM)zieg777 Wrote: yeah.... redo your math on that one universal. You'd be surprised at what can change your Damage per second

Just to clear something up, I meant upgrade levels not skills, but here's a recheck of my maths:

The base damage upgrade would be about a 0.9% increase (5 extra damage) because I forgot about challenge milestones, so that's 100.9% of my current damage if I do that.

With the double attack, I could get four upgrades (0.2% increase in total), which if triggered does double damage, so an extra 0.2% damage = 100.2% of current damage.

With the critical chance, I could get three upgrades (0.3% increase in chance), which if triggered deals double damage (my crit multiplier is exactly 100%), so = 100.3% of current damage. 

So for my 27 mil, it would be more worthwhile to get the base damage. In order for the double attack to be worthwhile the base damage would have to cost 0.9/0.2 = 4.5 times as much as it currently does, or ~121 mil. For the crit chance, it would be 0.9/0.3 = 3 times as much, or 81 mil. That is why those two upgrades are so pointless in their current form, they are just nowhere close to being a good buy. From the IOURPG wiki, I can work out that the formula for cost of base attack upgrades is ((level+1)^3)*100. Through trial and error, the level required for the crit chance to be worth it is 93, or 30 more base damage upgrades. For the double damage to be worth it, it's level 106. Currently, I am lucky if I am able to upgrade base damage once every two days, so that's at least two months in which those upgrades will be completely worthless. Hope what I was saying makes more sense this time, the way I presented it last time probably wasn't the best.

[jimmychooshoes]

since it was hard for me to find information I thought I'd post to help others.  Reading this horror story I wondered if I should ascend or not.  Took the bullet and have had no issues at all.  These are my stats:

speed lvl 20 (20)
CC lvl 27 (18.95)
CM lvl 14 (+53)
BD lvl 42 (+155) I also have 100 challenge points so the +50 and +100
DA lvl 27 (+22.6)

teamed up with my work colleague we are up to W3/5 without much issue.  Spent AP on speed mainly and gold on a spread (TH, GR, HL and CC included)

Haven't spend ascension points yet.