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@Ray.
From your recent post, "...guild-wide bonus system, which is separate to how personal upgrades work since Guild Instances are not connected to the player's whatsoever."
Accompanied with the description in upgrades, "Guild upgrades are individual and follow you no matter what guild you are in".
Makes me ask myself a question. If future upgrades are for the guild and do not follow you from guild to guild, what happens if you are kicked from a guild or leave? Are the resources you spent lost to the guild you were in, or do you take back that which was spent? If resources are lost, it can start a world of trouble and betrayal, as guilds can 'recruit' and then kick members to use them for their resources.
Ofc I'm not sure if you already took this into consideration or not but it would be a shame to see people abusing others for what they have, if you haven't.
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Hey Crimson, i'm not 100% what you mean. Personal guild upgrades stick around forever, while buildings is guild specific, and that obviously can't be transferred guild to guild, which is why I went around what most games do and ensured there was a way to keep some value towards your investment in any possible case, such as being kicked, disband, etc.
The primary reasons for people to invest is to get GXP for permanent transferable upgrades. The secondary reason is to improve the guild.
There isn't too much argument beyond that....I mean, if someone is concerned about such a thing, they can simply request leader status before investing a large quantity for better confidence. And another thought would be to avoid guilding up with a creator who doesn't have the insight to keep their best investors around.
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(06-13-2015, 08:11 PM)Ray Wrote: Hey Crimson, i'm not 100% what you mean. Personal guild upgrades stick around forever, while buildings is guild specific, and that obviously can't be transferred guild to guild, which is why I went around what most games do and ensured there was a way to keep some value towards your investment in any possible case, such as being kicked, disband, etc.
The primary reasons for people to invest is to get GXP for permanent transferable upgrades. The secondary reason is to improve the guild.
There isn't too much argument beyond that....I mean, if someone is concerned about such a thing, they can simply request leader status before investing a large quantity for better confidence. And another thought would be to avoid guilding up with a creator who doesn't have the insight to keep their best investors around.
Hey Ray,
he means the following:
- In a MMORPG, for example WoW, you can Spend Gold or Potions you crafted from your Proffesion to the Guild Bank. So everyone in the Guild can use now your Resources.
- But when you get kicked out of the Guild, you have no longer Access to the Guild Bank, and you lost everything.
- Sure you gave it for free to the Guild in the Firstplace, but u thought u get some Items/Gold from other Guild Members in Return too.
- Same Logic is Crimson now Asking for IOU.
- Will new Updates/Building "force" Player to Invest Gold / other Resources to the Guild w/o getting a Instant Return like GXP?
- Because when the Answer is "yes", then its highly abusable as Crimson allready mention, and im behind him and think the same.
People can do the most Beautifull Stuff in the World...
... and the most Cruel Shit too...
Light
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06-13-2015, 08:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2015, 08:35 PM by CRIMSONKING.)
(06-13-2015, 08:11 PM)Ray Wrote: Hey Crimson, i'm not 100% what you mean. Personal guild upgrades stick around forever, while buildings is guild specific, and that obviously can't be transferred guild to guild, which is why I went around what most games do and ensured there was a way to keep some value towards your investment in any possible case, such as being kicked, disband, etc.
The primary reasons for people to invest is to get GXP for permanent transferable upgrades. The secondary reason is to improve the guild.
There isn't too much argument beyond that....I mean, if someone is concerned about such a thing, they can simply request leader status before investing a large quantity for better confidence. And another thought would be to avoid guilding up with a creator who doesn't have the insight to keep their best investors around.
Well going off of what I've seen recently with guilds having more members; when new guildies arrive they don't question the guild leader for a better position, they donate their stone and say hi to everyone. While I understand that GXP is kept per player, if stone is not also bound to a player it makes for even more questions. Such as, making tons of mules to work in the mines. Then 'recruiting' them to donate, kick and repeat. Yes, they keep their GXP but the stones they've invested would then give the guild a huge advantage.
Right now MDK has 17-18 players, if each made a mule or two just to mine...well think about how much more stone a guild can generate. It is also hard to avoid guilding up with a creator, if you know no better. I mean Sy is an amazing leader but, that isn't to say that other guilds might not abuse such a tactic to get ahead. I have no clue what future guild buildings will do per level up, but if they are amazing like +1 members, that's when abuse is likely to occur. Even right now, if stone isn't bound to someone, guilds can kick them and use them for their resources. Some players have used ascension points in mining+wood cutting, so while their damage isn't very high, their stone output was. Imagine joining a guild and investing your 200,000 stone, to be kicked soon after. Yes you still have your GXP but now what do you bring to the table for the guild you're trying to get into?
lol Maybe I'm making a mountain out of an anthill but Idk.
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Better making a mountain out a anthil, as saying nothing...
I think your concern is right.
it CAN be very quick abused like Hell.
I allready smelling the Fishy Stuff and i will bet, sb allready abused that...
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I definitely see your concerns, but I think any system that people come up with is going to be able to be abused.
The way to stop 'mule' abuse is to disallow multi-playing... I don't think that would be popular.
I suppose there could be some sort of rules regarding guilds... maybe you can't be in one until some certain level, or even the 1st ascension, to prevent mining accounts. There could also be a waiting period after you leave one to join another (most games do 24 hours that do this)
In general, though, my feeling is if people what to go through all the extra trouble to manipulate the system that way, more power to them.. most that do so get bored quickly and leave.
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(06-13-2015, 11:31 PM)Wildfire2099 Wrote: I definitely see your concerns, but I think any system that people come up with is going to be able to be abused.
The way to stop 'mule' abuse is to disallow multi-playing... I don't think that would be popular.
I suppose there could be some sort of rules regarding guilds... maybe you can't be in one until some certain level, or even the 1st ascension, to prevent mining accounts. There could also be a waiting period after you leave one to join another (most games do 24 hours that do this)
In general, though, my feeling is if people what to go through all the extra trouble to manipulate the system that way, more power to them.. most that do so get bored quickly and leave.
Hi, I think a simpler solution would be that if you leave the guild the amount of stones you donated to the guild is taken away and reverted back into your inventory with your GXP reverting back as well. Not sure how 'simple' that would be for Ray to dev but, it is a viable suggestion that would solve the issue.
I personally would like to know if Ray plans to leave the current system in place; because if it does remain the way it is, I'm going to make mule accounts. It's an idle game, imo there's really little to get bored of when it comes to playing the game. Leave the game on and mine every 2 hours. To each their own though.
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(06-13-2015, 11:31 PM)Wildfire2099 Wrote: The way to stop 'mule' abuse is to disallow multi-playing... I don't think that would be popular.
It wouldn't be popular, but I'm surprised there isn't a rule against it already.
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(06-14-2015, 12:12 AM)Zebezian Wrote: (06-13-2015, 11:31 PM)Wildfire2099 Wrote: The way to stop 'mule' abuse is to disallow multi-playing... I don't think that would be popular.
It wouldn't be popular, but I'm surprised there isn't a rule against it already.
Mule isnt/wasnt forbidden, because as the Game was "very young" it was hard to find a Player to Group up with.
The Progress was WAAAAAAAYYYY slower then these days, and nearly impossible for Solo Player.
So Most play/played exclusivly with Friends or made a 2nd Account to Team Up.
But, tbh, im allready thinking about making some Mining Accounts too, if it wont be against Future Rules... The "gain" for a Guild ist just easy to get and very good, to just pass it away...
Sadly to think this way, but... yeah...
Light
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(06-14-2015, 12:18 AM)Lightshard Wrote: (06-14-2015, 12:12 AM)Zebezian Wrote: (06-13-2015, 11:31 PM)Wildfire2099 Wrote: The way to stop 'mule' abuse is to disallow multi-playing... I don't think that would be popular.
It wouldn't be popular, but I'm surprised there isn't a rule against it already.
But, tbh, im allready thinking about making some Mining Accounts too, if it wont be against Future Rules... The "gain" for a Guild ist just easy to get and very good, to just pass it away...
Sadly to think this way, but... yeah...
Hopefully Ray will make the right choice and squash mule accounts now, rather than let it go and do more damage later.
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