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Multiple Accounts & Scripting
#1
Howdy,

So there's been complaints and concern over a couple topics....

1. Multiple Accounts
People create multiple accounts and just group with themselves. This requires a good amount of extra effort but allows someone to always be grouped.

My Thoughts
None really. If someone enjoys playing in a party with their own self, how does that truly help them in challenges and hard-core zone progression? The open party system was designed to allow people the option to group with random people. Perhaps if the open party queue is empty, I could create bots that you can group with that are effectively dumbed down users that just auto damage I suppose - but wouldn't that feel kind of silly? Maybe not, but that's my thought.

2. Scripting
People are using auto clickers to enhance their output while being afk. You know who you are! :-p

My Thoughts
I don't agree with this. In fact i've been thinking about creating and releasing a top-list of cheaters who auto click (how many times they've successfully auto clicked) and releasing it publicly for personal humor, but that could be a bit overboard.

Would you guys be annoyed if every once and a while a creature spawned saying "Don't Click", popped up? It would only spawn if you were actively clicking, would give extra treasures, and if you continued click attacks/abilities against it, it would record the clicks and also never die until a relog. 

I'd also begin encrypting packets, and design the creature to spawn random looks/colors to attempt to avoid scripters from being able to track the spawn so easily.



These are my thoughts though, what are yours?
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#2
(02-14-2015, 11:51 AM)Ray Wrote: Howdy,

So there's been complaints and concern over a couple topics....

1. Multiple Accounts
People create multiple accounts and just group with themselves. This requires a good amount of extra effort but allows someone to always be grouped.

My Thoughts
None really. If someone enjoys playing in a party with their own self, how does that truly help them in challenges and hard-core zone progression? The open party system was designed to allow people the option to group with random people. Perhaps if the open party queue is empty, I could create bots that you can group with that are effectively dumbed down users that just auto damage I suppose - but wouldn't that feel kind of silly? Maybe not, but that's my thought.

2. Scripting
People are using auto clickers to enhance their output while being afk. You know who you are! :-p

My Thoughts
I don't agree with this. In fact i've been thinking about creating and releasing a top-list of cheaters who auto click (how many times they've successfully auto clicked) and releasing it publicly for personal humor, but that could be a bit overboard.

Would you guys be annoyed if every once and a while a creature spawned saying "Don't Click", popped up? It would only spawn if you were actively clicking, would give extra treasures, and if you continued click attacks/abilities against it, it would record the clicks and also never die until a relog. 

I'd also begin encrypting packets, and design the creature to spawn random looks/colors to attempt to avoid scripters from being able to track the spawn so easily.



These are my thoughts though, what are yours?

For the standard idle game, that would probably cause a lot of people to quit. As far as a multi-player Idle game I'm not sure. To me it seems like an annoyance but that's just my opinion.
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#3
I dont know about the auto click but it help me saving money from buying new mouse :3
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#4
Welp, i'm just looking for opinions. I have no true investment into the matter currently without knowing a general consensus of the community Smile I have my opinion, but that doesn't mean it will be the route I take.
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#5
Well im not going to lie when my brother is not online i use his account to group with hahaa.

And for the auto click i did it a few times but i dident think it made a huge impact.

But i dont mind with what you were saying.
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#6
Hello Ray and community,

1. Multiple Accounts

Creating accounts to group with themselves I think is a no brainer it is not cheating and gives no advantage over other players who can also create multiple accounts and level together. This is similar to multi-boxing in any other game.

2. Scripting

I can admit to using an auto clicker on more than one occasion and I originally used it to stop my computer going into standby when I first started out playing the game, but since I have only used it as a speed clicker to hack trees down before I go to work in the morning. So the problem lies in the ethical practices of such a tool does the tool give advantages to players that use it over those that don’t. The answer unfortunately is yes, a computer left on with an auto clicker can do more than twice the farming as one that doesn’t use an auto clicker granting an unfair advantage.

Unfortunately I have no proposed solution at this current moment.

Scripting is another problem for the game with regards to using spells while AFK can give more of an unfair advantage and more progression.

My proposed solution to scripting I recommended before that an out of the box auto cast would be advantages to all players and completely transparent. It would even the playing field.

I disagree with this proposed solution but currently can’t think of anything better myself.

“Would you guys be annoyed if every once and a while a creature spawned saying "Don't Click", popped up?”

Your always be trying different things to stop hackers within online games, encrypting a packets is just another barrier since they are decrypted client side anyway.

“I'd also begin encrypting packets, and design the creature to spawn random looks/colors to attempt to avoid scripters from being able to track the spawn so easily.”

With regards to both the above any sort of mechanic that is proposed to mitigate cheating I think should be transparent.
The biggest problem you face is the battle with people trying to exploit the game will never stop. It is also difficult to punish because many of the people that are exploiting will also yield returns for your business.

Kindest Regards,

Daniel Oxenbury

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If you implemented mechanisms to detect auto clicking you could reward players once a week for not using tools that effect gameplay this would act as a deterrent for any potential scripters/autoclickers and close the gap for players that don't use them.
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Or on the other hand you could also implement a xp/gold % decrease that highlights the xp bar red for one day if they are using these tools again this solution would mitigate the use of the tools but would not punish the players to hard that they would stop playing the game.
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#7
Interesting. I really appreciate the honesty here folks.

(02-14-2015, 08:27 PM)Danawar2 Wrote: 1. Multiple Accounts

Creating accounts to group with themselves I think is a no brainer it is not cheating and gives no advantage over other players who can also create multiple accounts and level together. This is similar to multi-boxing in any other game.

This is why, personally, I can't see much being done with this. Proxies and what not make it hard to track anyhow....it's also more effort to maintain by playing more than 1 account. Some people just play 2 for alternative play as well.

(02-14-2015, 08:27 PM)Danawar2 Wrote: "My proposed solution to scripting I recommended before that an out of the box auto cast would be advantages to all players and completely transparent. It would even the playing field."

Making it more openly available sounds like a balanced approach, however that leaves the initial feel that manual clicking for bosses and harder zones would be more effective. Perhaps this isn't an issue with the users but the gameplay itself needing an extra component that could prove more rewarding for those not auto-clicking.
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#8
I got no issues whatsoever with people grouping with themselves. I never did that as I prefer to group with some friends, and besides if a need shall ever occur to group with someone else I'd simply group up with stranger. Sure, if not enough people are online and allowing others to join them I guess "bots" can help, but as the userbase grows I don't think there will be need for that.

Now, to what I consider an actual issue...

(02-14-2015, 11:51 AM)Ray Wrote: Would you guys be annoyed if every once and a while a creature spawned saying "Don't Click", popped up? It would only spawn if you were actively clicking, would give extra treasures, and if you continued click attacks/abilities against it, it would record the clicks and also never die until a relog. 

I'd also begin encrypting packets, and design the creature to spawn random looks/colors to attempt to avoid scripters from being able to track the spawn so easily.

This. This, please. It would be an ingenious way to eradicate autoclick (or at least to make it much harder).

And to those who say "people will quit if they cannot autoclick": I never used autoclick, and only at times click (mostly when I'm in a party and trying to unlock a new area, or when I have a look at the game and luckily notice a treasure spawn). This doesn't mean I click 24/7 of course, as I spend only some minutes doing that and not even everyday. My mouse and my hand can survive that much. And when I'm not clicking (which is 99.9% of the time) I simply keep my game parked to a lower level area that I can farm with only autoattack. Is this unbearable really? If one likes to have the idle running at full potential (auto+click) 24/7 there's tons of single player idle games out there. This is a multiplayer game and it's only natural to make it fair to everyone. Otherwise having two distinct types of attack (auto and click) would be pointless and this game should just have auto attack so that those who don't look for autoclickers aren't left behind. (I hope this doesn't sound as a rant against the dev, because it's not)
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#9
(02-15-2015, 02:17 AM)pibedetorres Wrote: I got no issues whatsoever with people grouping with themselves. I never did that as I prefer to group with some friends, and besides if a need shall ever occur to group with someone else I'd simply group up with stranger. Sure, if not enough people are online and allowing others to join them I guess "bots" can help, but as the userbase grows I don't think there will be need for that.

Now, to what I consider an actual issue...


(02-14-2015, 11:51 AM)Ray Wrote: Would you guys be annoyed if every once and a while a creature spawned saying "Don't Click", popped up? It would only spawn if you were actively clicking, would give extra treasures, and if you continued click attacks/abilities against it, it would record the clicks and also never die until a relog. 

I'd also begin encrypting packets, and design the creature to spawn random looks/colors to attempt to avoid scripters from being able to track the spawn so easily.

This. This, please. It would be an ingenious way to eradicate autoclick (or at least to make it much harder).

And to those who say "people will quit if they cannot autoclick": I never used autoclick, and only at times click (mostly when I'm in a party and trying to unlock a new area, or when I have a look at the game and luckily notice a treasure spawn). This doesn't mean I click 24/7 of course, as I spend only some minutes doing that and not even everyday. My mouse and my hand can survive that much. And when I'm not clicking (which is 99.9% of the time) I simply keep my game parked to a lower level area that I can farm with only autoattack. Is this unbearable really? If one likes to have the idle running at full potential (auto+click) 24/7 there's tons of single player idle games out there. This is a multiplayer game and it's only natural to make it fair to everyone. Otherwise having two distinct types of attack (auto and click) would be pointless and this game should just have auto attack so that those who don't look for autoclickers aren't left behind. (I hope this doesn't sound as a rant against the dev, because it's not)

I have a slight concern about an implementation such as this. What happens to people, who haven't had a chance to use an autoclicker vs those that have. How will they ever come close to catching up to those that have used them in the past, in the rankings. If the concern that this game is a multiplayer game and that scripting is an advantage, what steps will Ray take to even out the playing field. If he doesn't and he implements something such as that, newer players or players who never 'cheated' will stand no chance of ever competing on the rankings. Well, unless ofc, they spend a ton of cash on the game.

If the ranking board doesn't really matter, than 'cheating' shouldn't really be a concern either. As long as people are having fun and playing the game, that's all that should matter. I'm using an autoclicker now, and when I didn't I was falling in the ranking boards. That could be for two reasons, 1) They bought premium content, 2) they used an autoclicker. Since I've had the game on 24/7 there is no third option. I figured heck if others could use it and take advantage, why not follow suit. I personally don't see it as taking advantage, in as much as I see it as levelling the playing field.

If Ray does decide to implement something to alter scripts and autoclickers, he should give out a free reset. While some may argue that if people wanted to 'cheat' and invest their gold and such into auto stats, that they deserve the loss that they chose. It might lead to a lot of quits. Or it may not, though I don't see people trying to play a game that feel as if they were screwed as being fun. I guess we'll have to see what happens.
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#10
(02-15-2015, 06:39 AM)CRIMSONKING Wrote: I have a slight concern about an implementation such as this. What happens to people, who haven't had a chance to use an autoclicker vs those that have. How will they ever come close to catching up to those that have used them in the past, in the rankings. If the concern that this game is a multiplayer game and that scripting is an advantage, what steps will Ray take to even out the playing field. If he doesn't and he implements something such as that, newer players or players who never 'cheated' will stand no chance of ever competing on the rankings. Well, unless ofc, they spend a ton of cash on the game.

If the ranking board doesn't really matter, than 'cheating' shouldn't really be a concern either. As long as people are having fun and playing the game, that's all that should matter. I'm using an autoclicker now, and when I didn't I was falling in the ranking boards. That could be for two reasons, 1) They bought premium content, 2) they used an autoclicker. Since I've had the game on 24/7 there is no third option. I figured heck if others could use it and take advantage, why not follow suit. I personally don't see it as taking advantage, in as much as I see it as levelling the playing field.

If Ray does decide to implement something to alter scripts and autoclickers, he should give out a free reset. While some may argue that if people wanted to 'cheat' and invest their gold and such into auto stats, that they deserve the loss that they chose. It might lead to a lot of quits. Or it may not, though I don't see people trying to play a game that feel as if they were screwed as being fun. I guess we'll have to see what happens.

I'm sorry but I fail to see your point here, with due respect.

You say that if players cannot autoclick anymore, those who didn't autoclick up to now will never be able to catch up with those who did. But this theory has two flaws:

- even if autoclick will still be allowed, those who join the game anytime later will always be unable to catch up with those who started playing earlier, no matter whether the new players are using autoclick or not;
- with that kind of philosophy, whenever on any multiplayer game someone finds an exploitable way to become stronger with means other than the legit ones, rather than having the exploit prevented from happening again should the developers of that game leave the exploit as it is so that those who did not take advantage of it will not be left behind?

Besides this game is considerably new, so I'd rather have a measure against autoclick be taken now even if that means being 50th in ranking instead of 1st because the other 49 used autoclick (not implying that those before me in ranking did that, as I don't always keep my computer on at night).
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